Coaching Clarity, Year-End Self-Assessment, Saying NO, Genius Zone and Drudgery Zone: Closing 2023 with Judith Escalier Revollo
Qing
Welcome to the Freelance Forward podcast, a show that helps you create and run your own business to enjoy the freedom and control and flexibility it brings. I’m your host QingChen, a freelance conference interpreter and language instructor. On this show, I sit down with fellow freelancers from different industries to discuss lessons learned, ideas and strategies, challenges and opportunities. So the rest of us can connect and share best practices, and gather tools and resources to move our freelance business forward. Thanks for spending some time with us today. And let’s get started. Welcome, dear listeners to the final episode of Freelance Forward for 2023. As we reflect on the journey we’ve shared over the past month, it’s only fitting that we close out the year with a topic that resonates deeply with the essence of closure, and new beginnings. Today, we have Judith Escalier Rivollo, a leadership trainer and executive coach, also the founder of her own company, Creciendo and MBA tutor at Vlerick Business School and an entrepreneur coach at after Artevelde Hogeschool. Hi, Judith. Happy to have you here.
Judith
Hi, Qing, thank you so much for having me.
Qing
Pleasure. Before we delve into the topic of the end of the year self assessment and forward planning for the new year. Would you mind if we start by exploring your journey from Bolivia all the way to Belgium? Tell us what happened? What brought you here?
Judith
Of course. Well, I The journey starts back in 2003 when I was graduating as a commercial engineer in my country. And it was a long time.
Qing
Yeah, no, that has nothing to do with
Judith
No, not at all. Not at all. I have never actually even heard of coaching or social science. 20 years ago. I do have to say that I wanted to study psychology. But my dad was against it, because 20 years ago. Yeah, psychologist didn’t really make a lot of money in in Bolivia. So he was like, no, no, no, you’re studying something in his view worth it.
Qing
That’s not really forward thinking right? But he also cannot predict how many or how much we need. Psychologists psychotherapists nowadays. You’re a therapist, I think you’re fully booked day after day, year after year.
Judith
Well, in that regard, I always felt that I wanted to work with people. And that was indeed my original choice. He was No, you’re good with math, you should do something with that and study engineering. So I talked him I convinced him to let me go for commercial engineering, which at least has a little bit more of you know, you use your commercial skills, you are more around people rather than just focusing on on the numbers. So that was a good compromise for for both of us,
Qing
What is commercial engineering actually?
Judith
That is the intersection between marketing, economy and accounting, finance. So instead of going for one of the four really deeply, you become a little bit of a generalist. Until then you discover your true passion. And then you can go deeper in and specialise in one of these topics. But as a commercial engineer, you could basically operate in commercial roles marketing roles, finance roles in Bolivia is because the first year of university we study five years not in Belgium is only three years to get your bachelor. In Bolivia, you get five years of study, and the very first year, you get all the same courses as any engineering degree. So calculus, differential equations, so you really, really go into the deep heart math, because you’re also doing you’re still studying economy, and econometrics and macroeconomics, and sometimes equation differential equations. So you really need the deep knowledge of math as well. And it’s only as of the third year that you get to see the soft, the soft skills side of the of the degree.
Qing
So after five years, you get a bachelor or the equivalent of bachelor a bachelor indeed. Okay, yeah. Okay. And then what brought you to Belgium?
Judith
Well it was during my last year of studies that I was an international student organisation, and I got to know a lot of people coming from abroad to work in in Bolivia and started to discover about different cultures they were sharing about their countries. And it was, you know, it was starting to motivate me to see the world. And initially, I was thinking, I would like to do a master’s degree abroad. And then it was like, Yeah, but it will also be amazing to have a professional career in another in another country. So I convinced my dad to let me go to the UK,
Qing
I was just about to ask you, how supportive Were your parents back then?
Judith
Well, you know, Bolivian culture, like any Latin American culture is very protective of their kids, especially of women. You usually live with your parents until you get married. And it’s it was normal, at least at the time I was living there that women would live there until they were 35 will live with your parents. But so it took some convincing, and my dad said, Okay, you can go but I will not give you any money. So I saved everything I could, I worked, I asked for financial assistance in my first job, saved everything I could, for my one way ticket to the UK, because I didn’t have any money to pay for my studies, I needed to save some money. And I needed to learn English, because I also didn’t speak English. So I arrived in the UK with around 400 euros in my pocket, and had to start from scratch and got a job as a student, because although I had a bachelor’s, my degree was not worth anything in the UK. So I worked at a supermarket, learning the language, saving money. And after two and a half years, I have enough level of English and enough money to apply to universities. And that’s how I ended up applying to universities in in Sweden, and in the UK, as well in Belgium and in the Netherlands. And I ended up coming to Belgium in 2007 to do my master’s in general management at Vlerick business school. Okay, because now you’re also working for Vlerick as well. Yes, I have some projects there as well. So I studied there for a year I did my masters. And when I completed my Masters, I got the opportunity to work at Vlerick as a researcher in the strategic management department. So that was a really nice opportunity for me, because it got me in touch with many companies in Belgium, not only small and medium enterprises, but also big corporations, banks. And that time, Dixie and Fortis. I remember I was the account manager, I was working closely with them. So it really got me in touch on how companies work on their strategy and how they share it, their strategy to go into market. But after five years, the big question was coming from Vlerick, what’s the next step for you? You need to do a PhD. And I do have a lot of respect for people who do PhDs. To me, it was really not for me. Although I was doing research for all those years, it was more applied research. And in the very last year, it was purely academic research. And then I really discovered No, I cannot do this for four years. I need to see people I need to be in touch with people. So then there was a decision of okay, I cannot continue in this career path anymore. And then I left.
Qing
Interesting. Because I also made a decision not to pursue a PhD, I think after I graduated. So that was eight, nine years ago. Okay. However, now, this idea started resurfacing, so I’m actually reconsidering, should I pursue a PhD right now. Okay. Okay. Let’s talk about that later on. So you have studied, you were born and raised in Bolivia, that culture is quite different from the European culture. But you also managed to study in the UK and Belgium. How do you think this kind of cross cultural experience helped shaped your perspective as a coach nowadays?
Judith
Well, it is. It’s always been one of my passions to get to know people from different countries. So not only living in three different countries now, but I love travelling so I’ve been to 58 countries I think and counting, just to get to know different cultures and understand and thing that always comes back is that there is so much talent everywhere. And, and people are actually the same. They have these amazing talents, but they don’t always recognise how good they are. And that is something that I’m really passionate about.
Qing
Do you think that is culture specific? That some people are holding back a little bit because their culture requires them to be humble? Humble, being humble is a virtue, for example, in Eastern Asian culture, definitely, definitely. But the Americans are completely…
Judith
I was going to bring the same examples, when you could say, there is this probably stereotype that Americans are more open and a little bit more of a peacock. You can you can say, but indeed, is just because in the culture, it’s more encouraged to show who you are and how good you are. While in others, you need to be humbled, because that’s the expectation of, of you. But in any case, there is as I say, talent everywhere, and I love how has it shaped me as a coach, I love looking into that untapped potential to help people discover how good they are. I
Qing
really appreciate that insights that sometimes people undervalue themselves because they just don’t know how much potential they have. So now, let’s zoom in on something that often confuses many people, me included, the distinctions between coaching and mentoring those similar concepts, right? So could you shed some light on the myth surrounding these roles and articulate the key differences between a coach between a mentor so what fundamentally in your perspective is coaching? And how does that differ from other forms of professional support?
Judith
This is a great question. Because I have to say that when I started my journey, as a coach, I was also very confused. I didn’t know what the difference was. When I heard about coaching for the very first time, and I was exploring to, you know, understand more and, and actually get involved into this industry. I had the same question. And one of the very first lessons we had in our training as coach was to understand the difference between therapy, coaching and mentoring. Because therapy, yeah, even therapy, because many people, there’s the misconception that many people say, No, I don’t want to go and talk about my problems with a coach, but a coach is not a therapist. So let me just give you what’s the difference between the three. So with a coach, you really look into improving performance, into developing your skills, into discovering what are your strengths, and how they can help you to achieve your goals. And we look at the obstacles and help you create an action plan to overcome them. But coaching is really in the present and to the future. So what do we have right now? And what are the tools we have right now, the skills you have right now? And what do you need to develop, to go to the into the next phase. However, therapy goes a little more into the past. So if sometimes we talk about limiting beliefs in coaching, we discuss that as well. But many times I encountered as well, people that have these limiting beliefs that come really from trauma, from traumatic experiences from deeper wounds, that coaching cannot cure. It cannot help you heal. So, yes, in that regard, therapy is the better route to take, if there are really so deep emotional issues that need to be dealt with in order to move into the next step. So that will be the difference between coaching and therapy. And then when we talk about mentoring, then, again goes back to some people think that going to a coach is to have all the answers that the coach is going to tell you what to do, how to do it and when to do it. But actually, that is a mentor, and mentor will share their experience, share their struggles, share the network, even the knowledge to help you follow kind of the same steps. I am a mentor once a year at least I take one mentee, which is usually a young professional with an international background. Who wants to do the same as I did, to study here or become have a professional career in in Belgium or in Europe. So as a mentor, I share my knowledge, I tell them what were my biggest failures, like tell them not what to avoid, and share my network even. But that is in the context of mentoring, while coaching will be really okay, let’s explore about your strengths, about your potential, about your skills. And using that, how are you going to carve your own path? So that’s the big difference between the three. Okay, because, in the introduction, you also mentioned that you’re a generalist, because I’m reading a very interesting book called Neo Generalists recently, and traditionally, we have two camps, right, we have either the specialists, or the generalists. And then you have this new concept of Neo Generalist, which refers to a group of people or let’s say somebody with a range of skills and expertise and disciplines, experiences and also interests so that they can excel more easily in certain new fields, while still being able to adapt in different situations. So based on your description of the differences, Can I maybe categorise a coach into this type of Neo generalist, while a therapist and a mentor is probably still a specialist, because they help you optimise your function. They help you to excel in one specific expertise, or discipline, while a coach focuses in a multidisciplinary or bigger picture, let’s say, Yeah, I think yeah, you’re totally right with, with coaching, A will be more multidisciplinary, that you need to have more of a holistic view, you cannot focus on just one thing. When I coach, I look at all dimensions of life because to me, we need to thrive not only in the professional life, but also your personal life and a personal life is also a big part of of the way you perform in your professional. As a psychologist, I would say that, in this concept goes a little more into the specialist, a mentor. I’m not sure if I will categorise it as like an a specialist, I think could be kind of in the middle. Because yes, they are very experienced in their field. But I think that when you talk to a mentor, it can also give you an overview, from all other things that they that they have learned or for they have perceived from other industries as well. And they can also bring that into into the conversation.
Qing
Right, thank you so much for clearing up the misconceptions that I’ve been having for many, many years. Now speaking of coaching, what aspects of it do you find most enjoyable?
Judith
I have found really, the place and the industry that makes me really happy. I love what I do. And this is what what makes me passionate about this, like I told you I see talent everywhere and potential everywhere. So to me, the fact that I can help somebody get consciousness, about their strengths and about the things they can achieve and inspire them to not just survive in life by thrive in their professional life in their personal life. That is really what gets me out of bed every every day
Qing
to be able to drive the transformation.
Judith
Yes, to bring consciousness so they can get inspired to to live the life they want. And in that, in that sense, inspire others as well.
Qing
For the past year, who do you or did you enjoy coaching the most and why. Just give us some concrete examples because I know you coach a really broad range of people from executives to freelancers, entrepreneurs who are very experienced and probably high profile professionals to students who might just dream about turning his or her ideas, business ideas to reality?
Judith
Yeah, I have one, one client that is very close to my heart because we work together for three years, three whole coaching processes. And her transformation was unbelievable. She is originally from Spain, and she started as a chef here in Belgium. And that’s our Well, I think she, she, she was already qualified to be a chef in Spain and came here. She learned the language. Then there was a moment that she said, Okay, I want to switch careers. And she wanted to go into corporate and not only into corporate, she wanted to go up the career ladder and get to C-level. Yeah, the very, she, on her own took the step of studying and getting a degree on top of her full time job. So she studied for few years to get a degree, a bachelor degree that will be, you know, accepted to enter the corporate world. And this is when we kind of started working together because she was like, Okay, now, my first I worked for a year, they were happy with my performance. And now they asked me to be team leader of, I think it was five people. So this was for her the very first step of climbing the corporate ladder first, yes. And then she was aware that, okay, I need to improve my skills, I need to really, you know, accelerate my growth at the same rate of my my dreams. So we started working together. And we talked about, you know, we worked on her leadership skills, communication skills, even presentation skills, then she was in this podium presenting for 300 people. And she Yeah, in the, I remember very well, we wrote the very first time what her goals were really long term, and she saw herself, I’m having a flexible life where I can take care of my children, but also I am this career woman that I’m climbing the corporate ladder, I’m gonna get to C-level. And she achieved it, she really got every single thing that she dreamt of. And to me, it’s such a success story is such an inspiring story. Because she took charge of her life. And she said, Okay, this is what I want. And at one moment, she said, Okay, I need somebody to help me a little bit to push me. And yeah, look at her now the things that she has achieved, they are amazing.
Qing
And how often do you actually work with experts in a specific field? Because you said, together, you worked on, for example, something as specific as presentation skills, right? So I wonder if you collaborate together with a public speaking coach, to improve her skills in that.
Judith
Yeah, I know, also my limitations when I can help, I know that I can provide those skills because besides being an executive coach, I also am a leadership trainer, and I give our trainings to organisations in different leadership topics, one of them communication and presentation skills. So in that regard, it was a good fit and a good match. But if there if it’s really out of my scope, then I will definitely put her in touch or put any of my clients in touch with somebody who is more of an expert in that specific topic, because I know that yeah, what Whoever comes to me wants to get the help they need. And if I can provide it, then I have, I’m happy to refer you to somebody else who can.
Qing
Okay, Judith, so in that book, the author said, there are six most important questions to address in life. It doesn’t matter if you’re a generalist or a specialist or Neo generalist. So these six questions are: What drives you? Why do you care? When do you show up? How do you learn? Where are you heading? And who are you? So during your process of coaching, do you have a framework Work was, you know, questions like this where you ask every single client? Or it’s a really case by case process?
Judith
Yeah. I mean, these are really profound and deep questions that we try to answer throughout a whole coaching process. So it’s not as easy as asking this question to a person and getting the answer many times they go through a coaching process to, to discover this, how I work is usually very customised and individualistic. For each client. At the beginning, the only thing that I do with all my clients, it’s what I call a reality check, where they really share with me all the dimensions of their life. Because again, even though you have goals for your professional life, I want to understand everything that comes around that. And then is when we make an evaluation of the different dimensions, and they score themselves in in each of these dimensions. And then they themselves realise, oh, okay, I need to work on this dimension in my life on this dimension. And then from then onwards, all the sessions, the only question, common question that I ask is, okay, what do you want to work on today? And depending on the topic they bring, then the questions really flow, depending on the situation. So it’s not that I have prepared questions. But in a sense, after a whole coaching process, we will address these questions that you just told me who you are, what drives you? How do you learn? And how do you show up? But that comes really, from different sessions, different conversations that we have.
Qing
But during the sessions and conversations you’ve had was so many different clients with different backgrounds? Are there any recurrent questions, or doubts they have about their career? Or about their? I don’t know, work life balance? Are there any questions that keep on coming back to you. Yes, saying no. In life, I think that is a that is a big topic to address, especially if you are a people pleaser in nature, I would say but no matter what, how you were in any aspect of life, saying no can be daunting. Now in the world of freelancing, saying no to our project managers, to our teammates, to our clients, potential clients can be also delicate too. Sometimes you have this insecurity, or just voice at heart, saying, well, will this know right now cut off many potential yeses in the future? Because you don’t want this to be a once and for all, rejection to this potential client. Let’s say for example, so what what is what is the art of that? What is the art of saying no, and what strategies or considerations do you recommend When making this decision? Definitely, especially because I work with, and leadership coaching. And with people who are incorporated or entrepreneurs, a lot of topics come back in a way of strengths. And then you can say, what what you just mentioned, work life balance, people really trying to take it all, and that they’re not able to delegate, but when you keep exploring, it really comes down to the inability to say no, to set boundaries, to be assertive enough. That’s a big one, you see, and, and or not knowing what their passions about what gives them energy or not. So these can be the common threads that come, but how they get manifested or how people express them are totally different. But the root, you could say that can be the same for many people as well. This is such a great question because it is a topic that comes back a lot. And I love this framework. From the book, The Power of a positive No, the author is William Ury. I want to say I’m not sure about the pronunciation it’s written you are Y. Okay, I’m gonna insert that to the show. Yes. That’s a great book. And I love the framework of the positive No, which is basically sandwich which is a yes, no, yes.
Judith
And that’s the same structure as giving constructive feedback which actually for me doesn’t work the feedback sandwich. No, that doesn’t work. But the no sandwich that does work. We can talk about the feedback sandwich later.
Qing
Yes, because then I feel like oh my god, I’ve been misleading my students for Business English, you know, because I’ve been teaching them the sandwich skills To give constructive feedback, but of course, from the point of view of language use, but yeah, tell me more about that after this session, I’m interested.
Judith
Yeah. Okay. We dive into the no framework. Now the positive No. So what this means is that we start with, with a positive response, validating the request of the other person, we don’t need to make them feel guilty for asking us something. So I’m going to give an example. I’m going to first clean the framework and then give you a couple of examples, then you say, a no, but a clear No, not an ambiguous No. And maybe, no, it needs to be a clear No. And then you doors shut right now. Yes. And then you close with a positive sentence, or you offer a different solution and alternative solution. So let me give you a couple of examples. In the past, I have, yeah, I do executive coaching, I also do trainings. And sometimes when I work for a long time with a company, it happens that they asked me to take on a different role or, or to join the company. You know, and it usually comes with such a nice conversation, you know, we’re very happy with what you’re doing, and what would you have helped us create here? And we would like to have you on board and join our company? I don’t know. Yeah,
Qing
I know. I really know what you’re talking about. Because last week, I was working at a factory manufacturing springs for mattresses. So by the end of the week, when I was saying goodbye to everyone. I think the technicians were like, Are you sure you cannot stay and work for us? And the engineers are like, too bad. You’re an interpreter? Otherwise you can join us? You know, yeah, I totally get what you mean. No,
Judith
indeed. And I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a nice feeling, because they are happy with what you have done? Absolutely. But the start to say No, first of all, is to do a not to do list, you know, we have a to do list, but a not to do list. So for myself years ago in my not to do list is never work employed again or for an assignment that takes most of my time, because I haven’t really clear know exactly. So for me, I know that I’m very happy with my balance of my students at our table there or coaching my private clients coaching for Vlerick, or giving trainings to company, I’m happy with that balance. And that’s what really makes me thrive. So I know that if I would take a bigger role that comes with responsibilities that I don’t want managing people or having to deal with administration or bureaucracy. So that is a clear no for me. So when this company was telling me, you know, we want to offer you this position, please come and join us. So I knew already that I had to say no. Okay, but how do you say, a nice, no, so you don’t close those doors. So then I use the framework, and I thank them first, thank you so much for your nice words, I really appreciate that you value what I have done for you. And I really enjoyed working with you guys as well. Then you roll into the No, unfortunately, due to the current commitments and future commitments I already made, I am not able to take on this extra responsibility, because I will not be able to give you my 100% as you deserve. And then you go in the positive gears. If you want, I can refer you to somebody who I think would be interested. Of course, if that’s true that you can say that. Or if you don’t know anybody, I will be happy to collaborate in the sense that we still have and yeah, I wish you the best looking for somebody else, you know, or I will put you in contact with somebody else. So you see in this is a yes, no, yes. But I was very clear. I thank them. I validated the request, didn’t make them feel guilty. Like who do you think you are, you know, you
Qing
You actually make them feel very important by saying by not being able to fulfil maybe the promise that I’m going to give you because I cannot be 100% engaged due to other responsibilities. And then actually that’s not what you deserve because you elevated their value. You validated that
Judith
Exactly. And I find that if you say I cannot give you my 100% Everybody understands because nobody wants us wants to give that you give them you know your 50% your 20% they want you for one reason
Qing
And you own that.
Judith
Exactly.
Qing
It’s, it’s because of me, it’s not because of this position except not being attractive enough.
Judith
Exactly, exactly. So that is a way that you can say no to a project you don’t want to take without closing the doors. But let’s say you are in the middle of a project and something changes, and you don’t want that, while you already there. Example, I had this client who has a website development agency, and they took this on this project to develop a website for a client, the budget, it’s agreed the timeline is agreed. And as usually, as the client comes sometimes with an extra request, you know, to answer the tie into, into that contract. So if if it’s something small, and you can work it out, of course, it’s nice to to accommodate the client, because you want to show that you are bringing value, but it really, and and you make the clear reflection that okay, no, this is out of scope, out of budget, it’s going to take me more time, then it’s time to, to use the positive no framework and this client, I can’t remember the exact words, but he sent an email saying something like, I’m just gonna throw a name here. Hello, Tim, thank you for your message, I really believe that this feature you are suggesting, will bring more value to the visitors. So that’s the Yes, unfortunately, we will not be able to create or work on this feature. Because as you know, we are very much focused and committed to deliver the website under the time constraints and budget constraints we originally agreed. And then the closing is, if you think this new feature is a must have, before we launch, I will be happy to create a separate proposal with a new budget and timeline for you. So you see, you are validating the client request. But you are making it very clear that okay, under this circumstances, this is what we can provide. And if you want that, that’s okay. But that’s going to be with a separator. Yeah, exactly.
Qing
Because that’s not what we agreed what our priorities exactly, should be. Exactly.
Judith
And you can also again, say like we are giving our 100% to deliver what we have agreed upon. And that’s why we cannot do the other one. But then you say, Okay, if you really want this done, I can find a way around it. But then I will give you a different proposal so I can find, you know, extra help to deliver.
Qing
I just wonder, I wonder, do you have a template, where we can just use to say no properly? Like, every time we have to say no to this client? Yeah, we pull out that template or just change the content a little bit, depending on your role. So do you have a template ready was for example, for website designers for coaches?
Judith
Well, not a template as such, I think when when you know, the framework, the yes, no, yes. And knowing that in the No, it needs to be very clear. And this is not in the book, but my heart is always used there. I cannot give you my 100% You know, but you could have some templates for yourself prepared, I think for first time in Outlook as well. Because these are I can I can create a quicker template for for our audience. And so we can put it in the show notes
Qing
if you want. Yeah, because I think the more you do it, the more comfortable
Judith
definitely, I definitely started just by writing, because you can you know, try many times, as the more you practice, then the more you can say it also in person when somebody just offers you, you know, like that, in that situation, a job on the spot. And you need to reply immediately because if you say I’m going to think about that, yeah. You need to say no immediately. So yeah, the more you practice, the more automatic it comes
Qing
And more confidence and sense of affirmation, you have and also, at the same time, less guilt or less concerns or worries. Yes, stemming out of that Yes, right. Now as we approach the end of the year, and we’re also We’re recording the very last episode. This year, so many of us engage in self assessment. So why do you think this practice of self assessment important? And what steps should freelancers take to have a meaningful end of year self assessment?
Judith
I love this question as well, because I think it’s such an important practice that we don’t do enough. And remember, don’t do it. Yeah. Remember, I told you I see so much untapped potential everywhere. And usually, it’s because we don’t take the time to make the reflection. So whenever I’m working with clients, but also for myself, and now that my kids are old enough, I also want to start this exercise with them is just going is just asking yourself three questions. And I always want to start with the first question is, what did it go well, this year, and sometimes when you see it, and you think, I don’t know, I cannot think of anything, or just you think of one thing, go to your calendar, go to your outlook. And it’s just such a nice way to, you know, recap your year, and remember, oh, yeah, I had this presentation, or had this meeting had this big deadline. Oh, I was so stressed. And, oh, you went so well, and celebrate, and celebrate Exactly, we need to celebrate more what we have achieved. So we realise our value moving forward. Once you done that, and you go through your whole year, while you’re doing that, you’re also gonna start discovering the answers for the second question. What didn’t go that well. You know, and then the third question is what I have learned from this. So yeah, just an example. I was starting to look at my calendar, and I had this big project in March, I was going to give a new training, and I had nothing. So I was really working really hard on that. And it went amazing, the the feedback I got, it was amazing. But while I was looking at my calendar, I also realised I had overbooked myself, that I had a lot of clients at the time, I had a lot of teaching assignments. So I was really overworked. And after I delivered this new training, although I felt amazing, I was also exhausted. So I learned that if I ever take on the job of creating a whole new training from scratch, I need to create more space in my agenda. Don’t take too many extra projects. So you see, you feel great, then you realise, okay, this could be better in this way. And what have I learned, okay, this is what I want to do different next year.
Qing
It’s really interesting, because those three questions got really reminded me of the time when I just started my traineeship in London, after graduation, it was the exact same set of questions. My while supervisor or lecturer, or back at university who turned to my boss later on, asked us to do or to finish after each single interpreting assignment. Yeah, same three question. Yes. What have you done? Well, what didn’t go so well? What can be improved next time? Yes, definitely. I just eventually stopped doing that. Because it’s like, oh, you have to spend, I don’t know, half an hour an hour reflecting after each assignment. And just it just got too much. And I don’t know, you got too lazy. And you thought maybe every time I’m just saying or writing down the same thing. So what’s the point of that, but maybe that was too often.
Judith
And we use once a year, we usually have holidays as well. So something we can definitely it can be and you know, just have coffee with yourself looking at your calendar and reviewing your year. And here I have a template that can help you. So you don’t need to, you know, do some extra work, just print it out or fill it up and write down what went well, but not only in the professional context, but also in all other dimensions of your life. And that’s having that reflection down is a great starter for the next year because then you have your objectives done already for next year. The only thing you need to do for yourself is say, Okay, this is what I want what I want to achieve in 2024
Qing
I’m just thinking out loud here. I think you mentioned we can do it we can have a coffee with ourselves, yeah, but I’m thinking maybe we can also turn that to a group session. So we invite some fellow entrepreneurs or freelancers, their friend, or even friends from different industries, and we sit together over coffee, we do that together. So you have some accountability partners, to kind of push you and motivate you to get this done.
Judith
And imagine all the fun stories you’re gonna share together and celebrate the successes, that’s also a really nice idea. Because accountability, it’s something that is gonna help you to achieve your goals as well. And it’s also nice to have these people to celebrate what you have achieved. So you really realise how good you are? And what what can you achieve with all that talent you have?
Qing
Amazing. If I think about the first guest that we had on the show, I remember he also does that on a yearly basis. But he does two assessments, one evaluating the professional development Yeah, the other one evaluating the personal development or personal life. So that’s looking back, right, looking forward. What do we do? Well,
Judith
this is, as I said, like a good starting point, because now you have an idea of what you want to improve. Next year, from what I do is to look at the different dimensions of my life. So the one says, Yes, career, it’s important to me. But then personal development is also important health, finances another dimension, and then go into relationships, relationship with my husband, relationship with my kids, relationships with my friends and family. In this way, I’m evaluating, okay, maybe this year, I didn’t make a lot of effort to see my friends. So a goal for me will be okay, once a month, I need to actively organise something to, to do something with a friend, you see something so small, but it’s gonna bring you you know, just happiness and joy. Because many times we think that goals need to be strictly professional, how many clients we need to have or how much money we need to make. But actually goals can be about everything, everything you want, and not go from one person is going to be the same as as the other one. What I always like to have is one big goal, the theme of the year, and then goals for each of the other dimensions. And I’m sure nobody who is 40 Not, not, I don’t want to say nobody, but I don’t think a lot of people who is 40 year old, who is 40 had the same goal as me this year, which was getting my driver’s licence, you know, that was the big goal for me this year.
Qing
And you did it! You drove to the studio this morning
Judith
I did. So you see, it’s really having goals, that they are gonna ignite a fire on you. And important thing is that not to focus on only one dimension of life, because many people tend to focus just on career or just on finances. But look at everything. The idea is to thrive, not only professionally, but also in your personal life. ,
Qing
Because they’re all interconnected, right? Definitely, definitely. If you’re feeling good in your private life, when you thrive in the relationships, yes, with the family with friends, then you just feel happy and good and motivated to go to work. It’s a positive loop. Building on that, when it comes to personal development, what what areas should we consider investing in ourselves, especially as we look towards the future, with a lot of uncertainties was changes that broad by the technological advancement and, and God knows when the next pandemic will hits? So what should we invest in ourselves?
Judith
Yeah, of course, each person is different and they know what they want to learn where they want to improve. But I feel that there are at least four things that we should all master, no matter your background, no matter your age, no matter what you want to accomplish in the future. And that is first of all know your strengths. There is so much focus nowadays in your weaknesses and what you need to be better on. But focus on learning about yourself about what what are you good at, because just as any company that does reflection of what they are good at, what’s their competitive advantage? What’s their value proposition? We need to do the reflection too. So number two is to sell ourselves, learn to sell yourself. But how do you do this by discovering first: What’s your competitive advantage? What do you do better than other people you see, and then learning about the weaknesses on and trying to improve your skills are just going to reinforce who you already are, and the talents you already have. And just magnify that potential you have. Number three, I think it’s important that everybody learns to set good boundaries. So learn to say no. And that’s, that’s something that to know for yourself, what you want to do and what you don’t want to do. So becoming assertive, that’s number three. And then number four, I will also say, learn what gives you energy and what takes energy away from you. What are you what’s your drudgery zone, you know, that really you hate doing? So you can really just do this not to do list? I don’t want to do that. It’s all interconnected. But these four things I feel that everybody should learn to do, no matter your background, no matter your age.
Qing
Yeah, I think not to do list is such a fantastic idea. Because my journals are full of to do list, but a to do list day by day, because I don’t like to plan ahead to long term. But I never had this not to do list. Of course, I know in life, in general, what I don’t want to step into Yeah, or what kind of things that I don’t wish to happen in my life. But when you transform that into concrete action plans just lay out to do list I never come up with a not to do list. So that’s yeah, that’s a very, very, very interesting takeaway for me for today. But also allow me to summarise what you just said, because I found all of those points. Very important. What should we consider investing in ourselves? So first of all, we instead of only focusing on addressing our weaknesses, we should also pay attention to how to strengthen or magnify our strength, yes, so that we know how to sell ourselves and pitch. So that’s the second point. And then third, it’s important to set boundaries, learning to say no, I think probably that would fall into the category of effective communication, you need to be able to communicate that definitely. And then the last one is to know what energises you and what drains you? Definitely, yes. Good. Excellent advice. Judith, thank you so much for chatting with us today. I’m not sure if there’s anything that I didn’t cover, but you really want the community to take away with this session.
Judith
Now that we are discussing these four points. The thing that is really just coming to me is maybe you can even summarise in two points to join this, to put all these four items together is just discovering what’s your genius. And what’s your drudgery zone. So your genius enters whether you go there, what’s your talent and what you’re passionate about. drudgery zone is whatever that takes away energy from you and drains you and the communication is the bridge to set yourself in one camp and not in the other.
Qing
Wow, I’m sure our listeners have gained tremendous value from your expertise today. And now I think we all know the drill as we’re nearing the end of this episode. Three last questions for you for all of our guests. Next thing to accomplish on your bucket list.
Judith
My big topic and objective for next year is to learn French I’ve been wanting to do it since I’m 10 years old and I haven’t because it was always a priority now I need to learn English and then when I moved to Belgium now I need to learn Dutch and now finally I’m feeling like okay, I love how the French language sounds I want to learn it so
Qing
that’s kind of level do you want to achieve professional proficiency or conversation everyday conversation level and how much time do you give yourself
Judith
for next year I think will be realistic for me to achieve a conversational maybe if we talk about levels, probably a b one b two that will be realistic
Qing
That is very ambitious. No considering the busy agenda.
Judith
Yeah, I know. Okay, fine. Yeah, you need to also step out of your comfort zone. If I say, yeah, if I say I want to be too, and I only reach be one not going to be unhappy, there’s going to be still better than, than a one you see. So it needs to push me a little bit. And I need to be challenging, even if I don’t accomplish it. 100% as I want, if I get there more than 80%, I’m going to be very happy,
Qing
Healthy pressure.
Judith
Definitely, yes.
Qing
Three people to dine with, if you had the opportunity to truce
Judith
Okay. First of all, I will love to dine with my grandmother. I lost her when I was already living in the UK. And I was 21. And I never had really the chance to talk to her as an adult. Yes. And I would love to hear more about her story because I think she was a remarkable woman that could give me such lovely advice for the future. And I’m feeling a little bit emotional. But I think that’s shouldn’t be such an could be such a nice experience.
Qing
Were you’re very close when you were a kid?
Judith
Oh, yes, yes, but it was the grandma – grandkid that dynamic love to get to know her as a person as well. Then second one, I would love to have the chance to dine with Florencia Andres. And ask her if she wants to be my mentor. Because she is from Argentina. But she actually became one of the very first Latin American speakers in TED Talk, even TED talks, invited in this platform Mindvalley I don’t know if you know, it’s such a big platform in the in the US, do you know it?
Qing
I do! My best friend who is a psychotherapist, okay, at Georgia. She actually asked me no long ago, probably a month ago, okay, she said, I’m gonna buy this subscription. Because Mindvalley thing are you in so we can split the cost and enjoy the courses together? Yeah. Is she the founde of?
Judith
No, she’s not the founder, but what they do is that they invite different specialists. And they speak and they create courses, and they have these big events. And then they are in podium to inspire others there as well to about leadership, as well as a little bit of a coaching and leadership and finding your, your path and understanding about yourself. And, and that’s, you know, something I would love to do as well. So I would love her to be my mentor or just you know, pick her brain. Because she didn’t, she wasn’t born in the US. She didn’t grew up already in the UK or in Europe or in she came from Latin America, just like I did. And she’s living, you know, these amazing, live professional life inspiring so many people. And I would love to learn more and ask her to be mine. And then the last one, I’m not sure if I’m butchering his name. He’s from Denmark. So hopefully I’m not is Torbjorn Pedersen. He is the first guy that visited every single country in the world without taking one plane. He never flew anywhere. He travelled by bus, by donkey, by foot by ferries, boats, anything any way you can imagine, except a plane. But he was also saying that if you usually fly, you spend so much money that you want to you know, just go and explore the most touristic places and then move on. While not having this stress of I need to book a plane I need to do that. I if I can travel by road, then I get to experience the culture and then it became a little more of your day to day climate. Not okay, this is good. I’m gonna set the challenge of visit everything b b without using a single plane. So yeah, I think that’s such an amazing experience. And I would love to hear more about that.
Qing
Amazing experiences usually come out of crazy ideas. Yes, yes. best piece of advice ever received, be the change you want to be in the world you want to see in the world. Let me repeat that again. Be the change you want to see in the world. Be the change that you want to see in the world. Yes, thank you so much Judith. Thank you so much for having me. Happy holidays everyone and hope you all have a wonderful time with your loved ones. See you next year Thanks for tuning in today. This is the Freelance Forward podcast, a show by freelancers and for freelancers. If you want to be part of this journey, join the community on our Facebook group Freelancers in Belgium, or get in touch via podcast@freelancersin belgium.be. Feel free to ask questions and suggest guests because we love your feedback. My name is Qing Chen. I hope you remember to take extra good care of yourself as you do your work out in the world, people freelancing and till the next episode
